hey,

So I just had a very interesting visit here at the shop that I just wanted to make everyone aware of. A couple of detective came into the shop today trying to get some information about a couple of customers of mine.

Apparently they are part of a new unit. There job. Pick up bikes with no plates and more importantly altered or missing Vin Plates. They then investigate who the owner of the bike is. (I imagine they know where the other vin number location is, b/c they had all the info on these customers except there phone numbers).

Once they have the bikes, they contact the customer to get them to come in. and arrest them on the spot for Altering there Vin. Which is a Felony offense in NYS.

So there you go kids.. be careful.

Moderators.. you may want to put something up in the FAQ and for a little while at least stickie this to the top of the forum.

Moderator wrote:IMPORTANT UPDATE 8/27/09: viewtopic.php?p=138262#p138262

Thanks Daniel.

We've consistently warned people about the risks of removing or obscuring VIN plates...

Here are some of the prior threads:

viewtopic.php?t=2147
viewtopic.php?t=2108

Right.. i know people were always warned.. just wanted to let u guys know that there is an actual unit specializing in this now...

So does this mean that we have to take off that little plastic cover that goes over the vin plate on many scoots? I didn't really want to get water and dirt in there, which is why the factory provides the cover in the first place...

It certainly sounds like the NYPD is growing less tolerant of efforts to avoid tickets by playing games with license plates and VINs. If they have actually established a unit to visit shops and track down bike owners, as well as tow bikes, my advice would be to avoid sidewalk parking and platepulling, and obviously not to obscure or alter the VIN. The police are obviously taking it seriously.

Brendan

drg wrote:hey,

So I just had a very interesting visit here at the shop that I just wanted to make everyone aware of. A couple of detective came into the shop today trying to get some information about a couple of customers of mine.

Apparently they are part of a new unit. There job. Pick up bikes with no plates and more importantly altered or missing Vin Plates. They then investigate who the owner of the bike is. (I imagine they know where the other vin number location is, b/c they had all the info on these customers except there phone numbers).

Once they have the bikes, they contact the customer to get them to come in. and arrest them on the spot for Altering there Vin. Which is a Felony offense in NYS.

So there you go kids.. be careful.

Moderators.. you may want to put something up in the FAQ and for a little while at least stickie this to the top of the forum.

The thing is, how would they know that these folks are YOUR customers???

And of course you gave them right up without a subpoena or Court Order?

This may very well be true, but something bothers me. Why would someone come into your shop seeking information on your customers? How would they know to look there?

The bikes might have stickers or other indications where they were purchased from.

Brendan

I wonder if they have to send it to the Grand Jury? I can just see the prosecutor getting all frenzied up while reading the charge to the jurors.....People...Tony Vespa is a menace....he knowingly altered his scooter so that he could park it next to a tree on the sidewalk!

Seriously, it's a pretty dumb reason to risk getting a felony.

Doug

scosgt wrote:The thing is, how would they know that these folks are YOUR customers???

And of course you gave them right up without a subpoena or Court Order?

This may very well be true, but something bothers me. Why would someone come into your shop seeking information on your customers? How would they know to look there?

I gave them right up? heh, wow.. looks like your itching for a fight. Regrettably for the police I didn't actually have the info they were looking for b/c I didn't sell one of the bikes and the other guy's phone was disconnected anyway (as i tried to call the customer b4 the cops came in, they called me first, to warn them something was up). I'm passing on the info so people don't get in trouble and told my service staff to make sure any bikes that do come in that has had there vin tampered with's owners are warned.

They came in here b/c we sell friggin Vespa's. If i was trying to figure out who the owner of a Honda was in the NYC area, i would look up who sells Honda's in NY and make a couple of phone calls. It's call Detective work, Genius. I'm sure i wont be the only one called. But I thought I'd give everyone who rides a heads up. I would certainly want to know.

Thank you, Daniel, it's appreciated. With all the talk about tickets written to VINS, etc., it is important to know that there could be serious consequences for trying to avoid those tickets.

Brendan

Once a year this vin # story comes out. Yes, almost every shop I've been into has told me that cops came in investigating vin #'s and velcroed license plates.

The reality is I will park my scooter only where it is legal. I will park between cars and if I am knocked over, well, that's the price of doing business. I will never park illegally because I believe it is my duty as resident of New York to uphold all the laws no matter the cost to me.

any time the vehicle is registered, there is a paper trail from there the vehicle came from. So if his dealership sold the bike as new, with the MSO (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin - not yet a title) it would have the information of the dealership that sold the bike. While there is a space on the registration paperwork to put a phone number, perhaps it wasn't filled in or the number changed.

Wouldn't you like to know who has stolen your bike, be it a thief or the NYPD?

Mario

One of our clients removed the vin plate and filed off the numbers stamped on the frame. He also removes his plate when he parks on the sidewalk.

The scooter was towed. He had no way to identify it as his because all of the serial numbers had been removed. Bye, bye scooter.

It is, as stated a serious felony offense to tamper with the vin on any vehicle.

scosgt wrote:
The thing is, how would they know that these folks are YOUR customers???...
This may very well be true, but something bothers me. Why would someone come into your shop seeking information on your customers? How would they know to look there?

Amongst other reasons stated, because its on the MSO on the bike's first registration, along with the dealer license number, address and name of the owner or principal from the dealership.

Andrea

Daniel thanks for the heads up!

interesting, My Sprint doesnt even have one! Here's a dumb question. If you have lost your VIN plate through the result of say a forgetful painter etc, and you have the VIn on your insurance/rego , is there a way to have one made or replaced? Ive always wondered about this for the years i've ad this scooter. Sounds next to impossible?

aceface1969 wrote:interesting, My Sprint doesnt even have one! Here's a dumb question. If you have lost your VIN plate through the result of say a forgetful painter etc, and you have the VIn on your insurance/rego , is there a way to have one made or replaced? Ive always wondered about this for the years i've ad this scooter. Sounds next to impossible?

Applying for a Replacement VIN in NYS:

Vehicle Examinations

Before a vehicle that is homemade or unique is approved for a registration, the DMV can require an examination of the vehicle. A vehicle examination is also required if the DMV assigns a VIN to the vehicle.

The DMV notifies you by mail of the date, the time and the location of the examination. Make sure that you bring the following documents to the examination:

* all original proofs of purchase, sales receipts or tax receipts,
* the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) or any other statement from the manufacturer,
* the title certificate, and other proofs of ownership, and
* other documents that identify the source of the vehicle or major parts used to make the vehicle.

Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

If your vehicle needs an acceptable Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), the DMV Division of Field Investigations can assign one. Complete form MV-272.1 (Application for Vehicle Identification Number). Write a personal check or money order payable to "Commissioner of Motor Vehicles" for the non-refundable fee of $25. Send the completed form and payment to:
VIN Assignment
Division of Field Investigation
Department of Motor Vehicles
6 Empire State Plaza
Albany, NY 12228

Any other NYS DMV Technical questions should be referred to:

NYSDMV Technical Services Bureau
Vehicle Safety Services
6 Empire State Plaza
Albany NY 12228
(518) 474-5282

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/homemade.htm

Hey kevin thanks very much! Thats awesome!

they are looking to hurt those that think they can park in the city without any respect for the law..

Seems crazy that there should even be a thread with this warning. I mean if ripping off the mattress tag is a crime...